tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post2514123169319060868..comments2024-03-28T12:29:39.157-07:00Comments on Graphic Firing Table: Bible beltingFDChiefhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-89751747930924231032015-04-13T14:49:01.042-07:002015-04-13T14:49:01.042-07:00Thank you for providing the link for us, Paul.Thank you for providing the link for us, Paul.Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08839236994990699117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-32253665061271790272015-04-13T08:31:13.431-07:002015-04-13T08:31:13.431-07:00Lisa, thanks for the reference. The Baumeister ar...Lisa, thanks for the reference. The Baumeister article is something I’ve been thinking about for a year or more. To circumvent the paywall, the article can be downloaded at http://faculty-gsb.stanford.edu/aaker/pages/documents/somekeydifferenceshappylifemeaningfullife_2012.pdf <br /><br />“May I be given a god's duty; a burden that matters," is the way the Egyptian Book of the Dead puts it.Podunk Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-583904937981887582015-04-11T08:33:44.436-07:002015-04-11T08:33:44.436-07:00Paul,
Per Joel -- he sure is something else, as t...Paul,<br /><br />Per Joel -- he sure is something else, as they say in the South.<br /><br />Yes, it's an interesting dichotomy you pose between absolute freedom and the demands of a faith system (or any system).<br /><br />Since most humans favor the "self-directed" model, and we are sneaky animals be design, it seems we need something to compel us to consider the needs of The Other. It'd be nice if we all had an internal GPS to direct us to "good behavior", but alas, whoever were to develop the thing would cant it to his fancy.<br /><br />As Viktor Frankl, Aristotle and many others have suggested, a good life is a purposeful life. Then you've got that word to be defined: "purpose". It can't be Al Capone's purpose, so I guess it always comes down to consideration of The Other, the Golden Rule.<br /><br />But don't just serve, meet your own needs while respecting the other, and you'll do well. "Love they neighbor AS thyself." It's not a call for martyrdom.<br /><br />Here's a good Atlantic piece, <br /><br /><a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/01/theres-more-to-life-than-being-happy/266805/" rel="nofollow">There's More to Life than Being Happy</a>.Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08839236994990699117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-74762342989528947742015-04-11T03:25:28.787-07:002015-04-11T03:25:28.787-07:00Lisa,
"Joel O's grimacing otherworldly r...Lisa,<br /><br />"Joel O's grimacing otherworldly rictus-smile" couldn't be said better. <br /><br />I don't think we will ever come to terms with the contradiction between personal freedom, self-expression, lust or whatever and absolute demands imposed by religion or some other path that promises dignity. The Jews and Greeks fought it out in places like Alexandria and went their separate ways.Podunk Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-39569273144590329112015-04-10T22:52:40.805-07:002015-04-10T22:52:40.805-07:00An aside to Hyper, et. all:
Studies are showing t...An aside to Hyper, et. all:<br /><br />Studies are showing that belief can have a beneficial effect upon surgical outcomes. Belief (in something larger than oneself) appears to matter.<br /><br />While religion has motivated some of the most horrific undertakings of man, it has also inspired him to create magnificent things in testimony to that idea of a higher power.<br /><br />The idea is perplexing, cleaving (in both senses), animating, and therefore not worthy of dismissal.<br /><br />Like Dylan wrote,<a href="https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A0LEV7oatShVOEwA0TcnnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTBsa3ZzMnBvBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--?p=you+gotta+serve+somebody+youtube+presidential+performance&tnr=21&vid=B78B75CF588165CC4BDEB78B75CF588165CC4BDE&l=201&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DWN.4VGQ%252f%252fScrBVcbt27PUtKUg%26pid%3D15.1&sigi=123baqo7d&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3QJcypTivZo&sigr=11b6bk6jf&tt=b&tit=Mavis+Staples+%26+Johnny+Lang-%26quot%3BGotta+Serve+Somebody%26quot%3B&sigt=11sdv0bn8&back=https%3A%2F%2Fsearch.yahoo.com%2Fyhs%2Fsearch%3Fp%3Dyou%2Bgotta%2Bserve%2Bsoembody%2Byou%2Btube%2Bpresidential%2Bperformance%26hsimp%3Dyhs-003%26hspart%3Dmozilla%26ei%3DUTF-8&sigb=1460blrr6&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-003" rel="nofollow">You Gotta Serve Somebody.</a><br />Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08839236994990699117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-724022160932779022015-04-10T22:34:48.590-07:002015-04-10T22:34:48.590-07:00Podunk Paul,
The mega-churches and Mr. Osteen in ...Podunk Paul,<br /><br />The mega-churches and Mr. Osteen in particular seem so inhuman. I can't understand good people getting entangled in it. I suppose pomp and fanfare has always held the innocents in thrall. (Why, just look at a Republican nominating convention.)<br /><br />(As an aside, when a wicked friend of mine wishes to shock me, he will embed a photo of Joel O's grimacing otherworldly rictus-smile in a post. It is always a "liquid alert" moment", a queasy one at that.)<br /><br /><br />Ael,<br /><br />Yes, we like to think there are some universal human rights to which we are accorded, and that Christianity somehow embodies this idea, but it is far from a universal fact. Our rights are accorded by man and durable only inasmuch as the laws designating them can enforce them.<br /><br />Otherwise, we got nada. I think the Holocaust was a good recent example of this. Not even our basic human-ness is guaranteed to us in this veil of tears led by often powerful and vicious self-serving men.<br /><br />My main beef with the whole issue of forcing gay anything, other than to recognize their humanity and protect them from hate crimes, is that it seems like the feeble last agenda of the liberals, and one which encroaches upon our basic rights in a capitalistic society.<br /><br />I think the leap we need to make is to ensure that gays are accorded full rights to civilly partner with their mates, and gain all attendant rights and protections afforded therefrom, as any couple enjoys.<br /><br />Beyond that you can't demand that religious institutions change their doctrine, or that their believers alter their beliefs. They may come to that within the community of believers, but outside enforcement is guache, and moreover a violation of the separation of Church and State.Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08839236994990699117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-7818155307614586782015-04-09T12:47:59.499-07:002015-04-09T12:47:59.499-07:00>> I would never have thought of comparing b...>> I would never have thought of comparing breasts - lovely and useful things that they are - to twin deer...<<<br /><br />O ye of Little Imagination! :D<br /><br />Think Santa's Rudolph<br /><br />bbAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-22604894186221222962015-04-09T10:58:16.629-07:002015-04-09T10:58:16.629-07:00Ael: Good point. Humans seem to have very similar...Ael: Good point. Humans seem to have very similar expectations <i>of other humans in their own in-groups</i>. Between "out-groups"? No such animal.<br /><br />Still, the major religious faiths do seem to have some broad similarities in expectations for human conduct; that is, there seems to be very little exhortation to "kill the infidel" as compared to "revere God and your daddy..."<br /><br />That, and I think that most religions have moderated the old tribal dictates as times and mores have changed. It used to be that the pizza-makers and the decapitators were the bog-standard for believers. It's indicative of how far we've moved away from that that these people are now the ones seen as the whackos and loonies rather than the ordinary joe Christians or Muslims...FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-61329532290671960102015-04-07T22:12:34.296-07:002015-04-07T22:12:34.296-07:00I am not sure that Christian "ideals" ar...I am not sure that Christian "ideals" are in some sense universal across time and space.<br /><br />They may have *become* more universal in our modern world.<br /><br />For example, we like to think that everyone is entitled to some basic universal human rights. <br /><br />However, in most pre-civilized societies, strangers are not treated as human. There are no laws governing what can or can not be done to them. A person has no obligation to treat them well, or indeed permit them to live. Futhermore, expecting a stranger to treat you fairly is the height of foolishness.Aelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10788190394672505925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-16068785527431066362015-04-07T06:21:01.794-07:002015-04-07T06:21:01.794-07:00So here I am in Houston, four o’clock in the morni...So here I am in Houston, four o’clock in the morning, stuck on a fucking book, the text a disorganized mass. At this point the book should be stirring, reaching for its own voice. Instead it just lays there, stillborn. So to write something, I’ll tell you about Don. <br />He’s 56 years old, skinny to the point of emaciation, lives in a garage down the street and comes by the house for food. My ex-wife feeds him and, although she’s too old to be driving on freeways, sometimes takes him to his part-time job as a security guard. A couple of weeks ago, we gave him a bicycle. “Praise the Lord,” Don says, “I’ve been praying for a bicycle for months. Now I can go to church.” I felt pretty good, and maybe he won’t be bothering Marie for transportation. Then he brings another bicycle by and I spend the better part of a day chasing parts and making the repairs. If you can’t write books, at least you can fix bicycles. <br />Don attends the Lakewood mega-church, said to be the largest in the country with tens of thousands of members. The church has a 16,000-seat arena, 32 video games, and a vault to hold the “offerings.” Don tithes, contributing 10% of his sub-minimum wages to the church. I asked Don how Pastor Osteen’s $10.5 million mansion fit in with Jesus, a homeless fellow who owned nothing except the cloak his executioners threw dice for. He replied “Jesus was poor so we could be rich.” Fuck a duck.Podunk Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-68851367636505360512015-04-06T21:35:16.774-07:002015-04-06T21:35:16.774-07:00I don't understand the whole Indiana brouhaha....I don't understand the whole Indiana brouhaha. I mean, we already have freedom of religion per our Constitution, freedom from persecution and the right to redress grievances.<br /><br />Plessy v. Ferguson has been decided; separate but equal doesn't hold water anymore.Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08839236994990699117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-4372211087985969192015-04-06T21:30:32.885-07:002015-04-06T21:30:32.885-07:00To clarify:
I was transfixed in the way that only...To clarify:<br /><br />I was transfixed in the way that only an innocent could be by the televangelist huscksterism, as only an 8-year-old, who also loved other fantasy, could be fascinated by the pomp of it.<br /><br />Tammy Fay and Jim Bakker brought it to another level of vulgarity.<br /><br />As I learned, I understood the absolute simplicity and humility of Christian dogma (as it is written). "Upon this rock", and "wherever two or more are gathered" ... none of this absurd Crystal Cathedral, quadrophonic speakers and wall-to-ceiling video streaming.<br /><br />I knew my parents would disprove of it, seeing it as I do now from an adult perspective: the gross exploitation of the needy masses who could ill-afford that $25 made in China prayer rug. <br /><br />But like Tim Hardin sang, people just want a reason to believe. And as Podunk Paul wrote, sometimes that is enough to carry you through a dark night of the soul.<br /><br />So I was simply being a subversive little 8-year-old, and I've never looked back.<br /><br />Looked at another way, it's all maya. May as well make it good (for you).Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08839236994990699117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-60875489223299280022015-04-06T18:16:30.589-07:002015-04-06T18:16:30.589-07:00Ael: Possibly because the Christian canon is large...Ael: Possibly because the Christian canon is largely designed around a set of ideas that are fairly universal to people. Most people want to be treated even-handedly, respected, and given a relatively decent chance at a productive, happy life. Most religions seem to include some variation of the sorts of "commandments" that aim for the above...<br /><br />Paul: Interestingly, I just read something about AA's claimed success rate that suggests that the whole "higher power" business may not be as all that as AA claims it is.<br /><br />(the article is here, BTW: http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/03/the-irrationality-of-alcoholics-anonymous/386255/ )<br /><br />And while there's no question that for some people faith - whether it is in a god, or gods, or Scientology, or yoga, or meditation - is terrific and a force for good for others its an excuse to let all their inner barbarian out to play and then claim that "Deus Vult" or "Inshallah" or "By the Power of Grayskull" or whatever.<br /><br />While prayer in particular may come from love and mercy and hope in general it can (and often does) take the form of praying for some personal lust or for the ill-fortune of someone the pray-er hates.<br /><br />So...I not only have no religion myself but have my doubts about religion in general. <br /><br />But <i>THIS</i> post wasn't about that; it was about the particular issue that a group of fundamentalist, political conservative "Christians" have seized on in order to do what conservatives and fundamentalists do best - hammer on some group or individual they loathe.FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-9340636648682495392015-04-06T07:21:05.525-07:002015-04-06T07:21:05.525-07:00However you cut it, people do better when they adh...However you cut it, people do better when they adhere to something larger than themselves. A Fifth Avenue bus stopped on AA member from drinking, military discipline saved many lives, and love of a wife, or husband or children gives us the strength to go on. Love of God (who may not exist) is the last resort for those of us who have nothing or very little. In many cases it helps in ways that are more important than practical effects. Prayer may not cure cancer, but can for many provide a context for continuing to live. Podunk Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-36267001501941658922015-04-05T21:21:03.751-07:002015-04-05T21:21:03.751-07:00I find it interesting that many people who are not...I find it interesting that many people who are not religious also claim to have ethical beliefs which are fairly close to nominal "Christian" ethical beliefs.<br /><br />They clearly believe in *something* even if they don't believe in an old guy flying on cloud and looking down.Aelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10788190394672505925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-12690966505314095652015-04-05T13:12:48.287-07:002015-04-05T13:12:48.287-07:00Hyper: I suspect it has more to do with simple pra...Hyper: I suspect it has more to do with simple pragmatism. I've never seen any evidence that god or gods can be used to do any actual good or ill in human lives; it all seems to come down to <i>people</i> - even the people who claim to be doing "God's will". And I have a very low tolerance for nonsense, no matter what the flavor.<br /><br />Were there a clear sort of "science" to religion - were there a way to conduct some sort of actual test of prayer and a control for divine intervention - then assuming that the result showed that there WAS a verifiable sort of statistical trend that showed that praying produced the prayed-for result then I'd be less skeptical (and more interested)<br /><br />But...as it is, the whole "religion" thing seems like a fairly pointless self-indulgence, and one that has the unpleasant side-effect of often requiring the adherant to believe and act in some ways I consider highly inhumane.<br /><br />So...hence the indifference.FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-19684543247723408092015-04-05T13:06:40.249-07:002015-04-05T13:06:40.249-07:00And, yes...The Song of Songs has some delightfully...And, yes...The Song of Songs has some delightfully salacious and imaginative imagery. I would never have thought of comparing breasts - lovely and useful things that they are - to twin deer...FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-14543648803987497942015-04-05T13:03:58.997-07:002015-04-05T13:03:58.997-07:00And I seem to recall that "Hour of Power"...And I seem to recall that "Hour of Power", too...but not with any particular nostalgia. It seemed like your basic TV preacher thing to me - entertaining in it's way, but, still...<i>Rocky and Bullwinkle</i> was funner...FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-88362446090635978372015-04-05T13:02:43.725-07:002015-04-05T13:02:43.725-07:00Lisa: These "religious freedom" things a...Lisa: These "religious freedom" things aren't really about voiding laws that are forcing churches or even congregations from doing ANYthing for homosexuals (or any other group they don't like/approve of). The laws requiring equal treatment don't require a pastor to perform a gay wedding, for example.<br /><br />They DO, however, require governing bodies to treat contracts between individuals (regardless of gender) equally and those working for those governments to perform those services equally. And they require those offering public accomodations to serve the public without prejudice within the law.<br /><br />So if you're gay or lesbian and you want a Catholic wedding mass? Ain't gonna happen, and these "RFRA's" are just bullshit. BUT...if you serve pizza to the public you gotta serve pizza to the public and not pick and choose which "public" don't get served. FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-84509272226476694182015-04-04T15:44:16.686-07:002015-04-04T15:44:16.686-07:00Forgive me for butting in, but isn't your &quo...Forgive me for butting in, but isn't your "indifference" the result of understanding it's all superstitious BS?<br />My guess is you'd be very interested if prayer-engineering were a scientific discipline.<br />HBHyperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00283398213573806543noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-56877449037180950842015-04-04T11:38:55.244-07:002015-04-04T11:38:55.244-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08839236994990699117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-48911644787600199642015-04-04T11:38:37.372-07:002015-04-04T11:38:37.372-07:00p.s. --
Song of Solomon is some pretty erotic stu...p.s. --<br /><br />Song of Solomon is some pretty erotic stuff, no? :)Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08839236994990699117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-72535411157061819882015-04-03T21:06:45.597-07:002015-04-03T21:06:45.597-07:00And as I recall there's a passage in Acts that...And as I recall there's a passage in Acts that says something to the effect that God - not the laws of Moses - determined what is "clean" and "unclean". It's meant to be about Jews vs Gentiles, but the implication is that the old laws have been at the very least altered by the Christ.<br /><br />That said, tho, then a true "Christian" must heed Christ's teachings - and those emphasize inclusion and love. Everyone - Samaritans, usurers, prostitutes, Romans...Christ takes them all in. So as I said in the post; the Levitian prohibitions on homosexuality need to be reexamined in light of the Christ...FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-34377521605158165912015-04-03T17:47:29.308-07:002015-04-03T17:47:29.308-07:00I think that you are best described as *both* an a...I think that you are best described as *both* an atheist and an agnostic.<br /><br />And yes, the old law doesn't have to apply to Christians. Mark describes Jesus healing people and his disciples harvesting grain on the Sabbath (Thereby driving the legalistic religious types so crazy they started to plotting against him)Aelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10788190394672505925noreply@blogger.com