tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post3668172150287333097..comments2024-03-28T12:29:39.157-07:00Comments on Graphic Firing Table: SargassumFDChiefhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-43050485245914924772013-07-28T19:30:10.148-07:002013-07-28T19:30:10.148-07:00I need to correct my self. As Jim says, if the gun...I need to correct my self. As Jim says, if the gun was clearly empty, then your homi heroes are murderers. If they had reason to believe that the good ol boy could reload, then I understand the self defense argument.<br /><br />My last word here is that you seem to like it when blacks kill whites. You'd like to see more of this? This is righteous to you for some reason?<br /><br />That thinking won't get you to the shining city on the hill.no onehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01354534884958815612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-38696001921173018362013-07-28T08:11:30.446-07:002013-07-28T08:11:30.446-07:00Chief,
I find this all so interesting.
You ALL fir...Chief,<br />I find this all so interesting.<br />You ALL fire several shots across our bow and then you shut down the discussion.<br />WTF?<br />I find it amusing that you celebrate the death of a dude with an empty pistol, but fail to see that beating his head in with rocks WAS NOT SELF DEFENSE, but rather aggressive killing of a man. Christ, this is more aggressive than what Z did to TM.<br />If the dudes gun was empty then he was no longer a threat.<br />What's with you?<br />You blast gun men but yet you have guns for , i presume home defense. You blast stand your ground laws , but would you roll over if attacked?<br />I bet not.!<br />I agree - i will cut off and break contact, but not because you tell me to do so.<br />You started the shooting match, but won't balls up and follow it through.<br />My belief is that your blog is your home, and i'll respect that, but don't start shit you can't or won't finish.<br />That's a violation of stand your ground.<br />hruskarangeragainstwarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02126542922536584950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-46550109707811315222013-07-28T07:47:03.980-07:002013-07-28T07:47:03.980-07:00That is an interesting story, Chief. I would say (...That is an interesting story, Chief. I would say (assuming you got the facts right on this one) that your local banjo picker was criminally in the wrong and his head being introduced to the rock was self defense on the home's part. Case closed.<br /><br />And that being said, the story also seems to support the idea that T was, indeed, a blossoming gangsta. Note that his reaction was to slug in the nose and then seize the opportunity to do some head bashing of his own.<br /><br />And for what excuse. He just didn't like being watched? You lookin' at me? You lookin' at me? no onehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01354534884958815612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-11768821371946378982013-07-27T21:07:22.068-07:002013-07-27T21:07:22.068-07:00OK. I'm breaking my promise, but only this on...OK. I'm breaking my promise, but only this once.<br /><br />If Martin had been a genuine gangbanger we wouldn't be taling about this case. He would have capped the idiot wanna-be crimefighter as soon as he looked at him crossways.<br /><br />Let me give you an example.<br /><br />One Fourth of July one of our local boys got pissed off because one of the homies let his pitbull walk on my man's blanket. Badass goes to the truck, gets the .45, chases the brothers down the beach shooting like these dumb fuckers usually do. About 500 yards down the beach the slide locks backm both sides look at the now-empty pistol, and supposedly the dumbfuck's last words are "Oh, shit..."<br /><br />Brothers beat him to death with a rock.<br /><br />A fucking ROCK. The Portland cops - after locking up the brothers - laughed about dumbfuck as "the guy who brought a gun to a rockfight - and lost."<br /><br />So discussing Martin's wannabe gangsta posing is about as relevant as the rest of your ridiculous attempts to try and make this anything but what it was; an asshole with a gun who got himself into trouble and had to kill an unarmed man to get himself out. He was a gangster like...well, like I'm Robinson Crusoe.<br /><br />So. Now I'm REALLY done. And further comments on this thread will be cheerfully ignored.FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-55040413873998198212013-07-27T18:42:38.846-07:002013-07-27T18:42:38.846-07:00"...with a loaded pistol and order someone to..."...with a loaded pistol and order someone to halt or you will shoot (or attempt to physically detain them) or harrass them, or force them into a fight and then kill them when you lose...that is "hunting someone down"."<br /><br />and<br /><br />"<br /> However, if you attempt to use force to confront them or detain them, if you force them to either flee, fight, or beg for your mercy, and if they fight you you then kill them if you're losing...that is "hunting someone down".<br /><br /><br />This is the problem. You have completely confabulated every aspect of the statements above, other than the fact that Z had a gun. Everything else is straight out of your imagination.<br /><br />And it is peculiar to some people that liberals keep repeating the same erroneous BS, as if they all get the same talking point memo or they are mind melded with the same borg. <br /><br />Z got out of the vehicle to a) read the street sign b) to see which way T went. Period. Full stop. That was the testimony and there is nothing criminal or manslaughtery about any of it. After four full minutes T re-appears and attacks Z.<br /><br />Again, anything in addition to that is pure imagination. <br /><br />Why is T's gansta history material? Because sensible people would wonder why there was a fight, especially given that T had four full minutes to get away, to go home, to call 911, whatever. To say hello to Z and ask wassup. Why didn't he? Hmmmm....could it be he was reacting as a little gangsta? Like the guy who bragged on tweets about sucker punches and beat downs and even wanting to shoot someone with the guns he posed with? Yes, by golly. That fits - fits a lot better than the cadence the lib.s keep calling.<br /><br />no onehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01354534884958815612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-64879699818819976712013-07-27T18:07:48.935-07:002013-07-27T18:07:48.935-07:00And to make this official: this is as far as I'...And to make this official: this is as far as I'm going to take this "discussion". <br /><br />As I said in the original post, I've got no real give-a-shit in this fight. The fucked-up behavior of people I don't know and don't care about is too much work for me to get worked up about, and the fucked-up laws of the State of Florida are not mt problem, living in Oregon as I do.<br /><br />So; you're welcome to continue paddling in this dirty water. I'm moving on to a new post and something that I DO gove a shit about.FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-58893707167919189282013-07-27T17:59:11.354-07:002013-07-27T17:59:11.354-07:00OK, one last comment.
"How is walking along ...OK, one last comment.<br /><br /><i>"How is walking along a public area, "hunting someone down"?"</i><br /><br />When you walk along a public place...with a loaded pistol and order someone to halt or you will shoot (or attempt to physically detain them) or harrass them, or force them into a fight and then kill them when you lose...that is "hunting someone down".<br /><br /><i>"How is keeping an eye on strangers in a neighborhood hunting humans?"</i><br /><br />It is not. However, if you attempt to use force to confront them or detain them, if you force them to either flee, fight, or beg for your mercy, and if they fight you you then kill them if you're losing...that is "hunting someone down".<br /><br /><i>"How is the proper response to someone watching your movements, in a civilian setting, to physically attack them?"</i><br /><br />It is not. However, in this case <i>there is no evidence that this is what happened.</i> From what we can tell, Zimmerman got OUT of his vehicle, approached Martin first, and attempted to either question, detain, or apprehend him.<br /><br />Had Zimmerman stayed in his vehicle and continued observing Martin, <i>as the fucking 9-1-1 operator advised him (and common sense would have guided anyone but an asshole who wanted a fight)</i> he would never have been placed in the position to BE "physically attacked".<br /><br />Look, guys. It's really this simple: the fucker got away with manslaughter, pissing everyone off in the process, and making the U.S. criminal justice system look clumsy and biased.<br /><br />Here's the thing; the U.S. is an odd place. We're not "Americans" because of the language we speak, or the food we eat, or the clothes we wear. There's no "American culture" like there is one in France, Greece, or China.<br /><br />Instead we depend on our national ideals; "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", remember? "Liberty and justice for all"<br /><br />Now in reality we all know that some pigs are more equal than others. Lisa's four black bucks from Atlanta are going to do 20 to life for murder. Meanwhile, our man Zimmerman walked on what should have been a straight-up manslaughter rap.<br /><br />That's NOT in all of our best interests. Really. We shouldn't be defending this decision, or this idiot, in any way, any more than black Americans should have celebrated when O.J. Simpson got off or Wall Street should be celebrating that nobody got jailed for the Great Con of 2008. <br /><br />In the latter case it was cash and influence, in the former cash and fame. In the the Zimmerman case it was a piss poor prosecutor and a ridiculous "self-defense" statute, but in all three cases it just drives home that we are the Land of the Free...if you're the right kind of person and the people you harm are poor, powerless, black, or just dead and can't testify against you, like the two poor bastards Simpson opened up like pillowcases.<br /><br />We done here? Because I am.FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-28276096597731594972013-07-27T17:28:23.686-07:002013-07-27T17:28:23.686-07:00"One last, promise: Where is the liberal outr...<i>"One last, promise: Where is the liberal outrage over the vigilantism of the new black panthers calling for Z's death? Where is NLN senior's leadership in this regard?<br /><br />If you are against hunting people down you are against hunting people down.<br /><br />Or are you?"</i><br /><br />Sigh.<br /><br />Of COURSE I'm "against" the "New Black Panthers" (or whatever the fuck imaginary organization this really is other than something that flew out of Glenn Beck's earhole) doing a hit on Zimmerman. As fucked up as the verdict was in any sane polity the guy was tried and correctly acquitted in a court of law under the "self-defense" statute of the State of Florida. Obviously I like and support the rule of law; it's enabled me to feel secure that rich people cannot steal bread and sleep under bridges with impunity since my infancy.<br /><br />But I have no fucking control over the "New Black Panthers" (or whatever this group actually is other than something Rush Limbaugh uses to make his Costa Rican rentboys afraid to pilfer his supply of oxycontin) or any other such organization or individual. Were this an actual realistic threat instead of some kind of ridiculous Fox News talking point and I were a resident of Florida I would be all over the Florida DOJ to provide Zimmerman with some sort of protective arrangement.<br /><br />But since is isn't, and I'm not, like I said above; <i>I don't give a shit.</i> Zimmerman is free to continue to walk around with his 9mm dick hard, and the price of the 2nd Amendment means that even if I did give a shit enough to be outraged that he'd have to do that and take his chances, just like Martin did the night they met.FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-52691574368391954642013-07-27T17:19:21.685-07:002013-07-27T17:19:21.685-07:00"Why is talking about gangsta culture and its...<i>"Why is talking about gangsta culture and its negative impact on blacks off the table?</i>"<br /><br />Because it is immaterial to this specific case; an incident in which an armed man chased down an unarmed man, forced him to flee or fight, then killed him when he (the agressor) was losing.<br /><br />Whether or not the dead man had any connection to "black culture" had no bearing on this particular incident, and in particular because had he BEEN A real gangsta he'd have capped the dumbass neighborhood watch commando before he cleared his bullet-launcher from his Dockers.<br /><br /><i>"In a country with a 1st amendment in its laws why do people try to suppress certain discussions by extra legal means?"</i><br /><br />This is simply nonsense. No one is "suppressing" any discussion, since we're having it right here as well as at RAW. Having it pointed out that your "discussion" is not logically coherent or sensible is not "suppressing" it.<br /><br /><i>"Why must a liberal (or a conservative) buy the party line - hook, and sinker on every issue?"</i><br /><br />What does that have to do with this, either?<br /><br />I'm liberal as hell and I don't see this as anything more than I've said in this post; an asshole with a gun who got off on the technical detail that the State of Florida has an insanely fucked-up definition of "self-defense".<br /><br /><i>"Why do people not have the right to defend themselves?"</i><br /><br />If you think this has ANYthing to do with what <i>actually</i> happened between these two people that night I want what you're smokin'. If I'm packing and I chase you down and I force you to run, fight, or beg me for mercy, and you choose to fight, and I kill you that's self-defense like I am the fucking Dragon King of Bhutan.<br /><br /><i>"What happens when something as fundamental as the right to defend oneself is removed and we all become utterly dependent on the government for protection of our person, loved ones' persons and possessions?"</i><br /><br />See above.<br /><br /><i>"...why the emotion?"</i><br /><br />Because, in case you haven't noticed, us white boys killing black, brown, red, and yellow people for fun and laughs is a tradition as old as tricorn hats. A lot of those people are sick and tired of it. I seem to notice that a lot of WHITE people have their panties in a twist about this Zimmerman dude, an asshole who couldn't resist forcing a fight on an unarmed man and a pussy who resorted to armed force when he couldn't beat the unarmed man in a fistfight.<br /><br />And I DON'T care - that's what I'm fucking saying! Fuckadoodledoo, do you guys READ what I write?!?FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-21282711510909010282013-07-27T17:07:51.240-07:002013-07-27T17:07:51.240-07:00"The war is a issue here. Do u not see the fu...<i>"The war is a issue here. Do u not see the fund cuts and budgetary constraints that have less police on the patrol scene?"</i><br /><br />No. First of all, dunno about your 'hood, but our local coppers (and firefighters) have been exempted from budget cuts WAY past where they should have been; everything else has taken it in the shorts. Example; mental health and detox programs are getting hammered. Guess what; the coppers are seeing WAY more stressed out whack dudes, alkies, and dopers than they did five years ago...<br /><br />One thing I will agree with; with state and local funding in the shitter (because the GOP refuses to consider ANY taxes at all for anything) more money is coming from DHS. That (in my opinion) tends to make the coppers take the funding in the form of tools and training that tend to make them more "military"...without either the mission or the actual need for militarization.<br /><br />I will add this to your observation about Zimmerman and the 9-1-1 dispatcher. Regardless of who or what the dispatcher was, it was the closest thing to trained law-enforcement advice the fucker was getting. And the advice was common-sense; "you're a neighborhood WATCH, dumbfuck. So do all that you're "trained" to do; fucking WATCH. Keep and eye on this dude, wait for the REAL coppers, and ID the perp."<br /><br />Instead the trigger-happy sunofabitch got stuck in and earned himself what in any same legal system would have been 5 to 7 for voluntary manslaughter.<br /><br />Regardless of the legal position of the 9-1-1 desk, for him to disregard that advice was fucking stupid.FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-65668329981126654172013-07-27T16:40:40.046-07:002013-07-27T16:40:40.046-07:00One last, promise: Where is the liberal outrage ov...One last, promise: Where is the liberal outrage over the vigilantism of the new black panthers calling for Z's death? Where is NLN senior's leadership in this regard?<br /><br />If you are against hunting people down you are against hunting people down. <br /><br />Or are you?<br /><br />no onehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01354534884958815612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-49010326118330610942013-07-27T15:08:06.631-07:002013-07-27T15:08:06.631-07:00Or - why should I care about nolimitsnigga (Trayvo...Or - why should I care about nolimitsnigga (Trayvon's self chosen call sign for the site where he posted pictures of himself with guns, drugs and boasted of his ability to sucker punch and beat down opponents; for those still in denial). <br /><br />Why should I avoid racial stereotypes when T and POTUS have obviously bought into them themselves? <br /><br />Why should I have any faith in "leadership" that identifies with such foolish rot? <br /><br />When it is obvious that someone(s) is out to screw me and mine along racial lines why would I accept it and take. T and POTUS brought racism into this. Fuck them both and their liberal sycophants, I say.I am not ashamed of being white.<br /><br />Where is the leadership? I don't see it. I see agitation for special (read black) causes, excuses and divisiveness where there should be unity. Why should I take anyone seriously who wants to make T a cause celebre?<br /><br />Z hunting T down is a lie that fools have to believe in order for all the other pieces of their fragile - and false - world view to remain glued together.<br /><br />How is walking along a public area, "hunting someone down"? How is keeping an eye on strangers in a neighborhood hunting humans? How is the proper response to someone watching your movements, in a civilian setting, to physically attack them?<br /><br />Without the "hunting down" concept, born of fevered dreams induced by smoking the liberal pipe too much for too long, by neutered whites, being melded with black activist racial socio/economic aggression, all we have is an unfortunate incident that should have never made it past page 7B in the local paper.<br /><br />I'm pretty sure you won't offer an answer to any of this b/c you'll just say it's crazy or something - much easier than thinking or engaging in self examination.<br /><br />Gosh golly all reasonable people know that it's not that way. <br /><br /><br />Do you allow your children to hang out with nolimitsnigga types? Do any live in your neighborhood?<br /><br /><br /><br /> no onehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01354534884958815612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-48607410194756203262013-07-27T14:26:28.963-07:002013-07-27T14:26:28.963-07:00And, now that I'm a couple drinks into cocktai...And, now that I'm a couple drinks into cocktail hour - why the emotion? While Trayvon's older doppleganger was agitating to have Z persecuted for what was deemed a justifiable homicide, he damned near killed my son. Now that he's home - mostly - nolimitsnigga, the elder, is trying to screw him out of his benefits.<br /><br />Who fucking cares? Not you guys. Not the media. Not Al Sharpton.<br /><br />Crocodile tears for T? No thanks.no onehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01354534884958815612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-80825812674277901552013-07-27T10:11:23.722-07:002013-07-27T10:11:23.722-07:00A couple more b/c I'm really interested in th...A couple more b/c I'm really interested in the answer from someone of your political persuasion;<br /><br />4. Why do people not have the right to defend themselves?<br /><br />5. What happens when something as fundamental as the right to defend oneself is removed and we all become utterly dependent on the government for protection of our person, loved ones' persons and possessions?<br /><br />Are we even still Americans when we have become drones in the collective hive and POTUS is the queen bee?no onehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01354534884958815612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-25440269685772830362013-07-27T09:22:47.784-07:002013-07-27T09:22:47.784-07:00Chief, a couple of questions for you, if you would...Chief, a couple of questions for you, if you would please. <br /><br />1. Why is talking about gangsta culture and its negative impact on blacks - perhaps on Trayvon specifically - off the table? Is it reasonable or intelligent to discuss issues/situations while barring consideration of potentially key contributing variables? To my mind not discussing gangstahood is like talking about traffic fatalities, but making it a faux pas to mention drinking and driving.<br /><br />2. In a country with a 1st amendment in its laws why do people try to suppress certain discussions by extra legal means? e.g. social pressures, media manipulation? Do we still value freedom when certain topics are verboten? Maybe this is one of Jim's/Lisa's points. They will not have their speech or thought oppressed officially or non-officially - that's what I see any how.<br /><br />3. Why must a liberal (or a conservative) buy the party line - hook, and sinker on every issue? e.g. "as liberals we must see this situation as....." Can any one camp be that righteous and objectively correct in all things? What is more important a) getting to the truth of things and working to actually be as righteous as possible in this world or b) simply one's side winning as if our society is engaged in some existential internal war?<br /><br />no onehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01354534884958815612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-9730496882008612592013-07-27T06:39:04.450-07:002013-07-27T06:39:04.450-07:00BB,
A dispatcher ain't a authorized le officia...BB,<br />A dispatcher ain't a authorized le official.<br />Dispatchers are friggin' minimum wage untrained people, they are not fdle qualified as OFFICIALS.<br />Chief,<br />Our friendship goes beyond differences of opinion.<br />The war is a issue here. Do u not see the fund cuts and budgetary constraints that have less police on the patrol scene? I'm talking community policing ,NOT black uniformed killers chasing the bogey man.<br />jim<br />rangeragainstwarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02126542922536584950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-91744804162600679082013-07-26T15:27:14.213-07:002013-07-26T15:27:14.213-07:00The sad fact is that with the political reality we...The sad fact is that with the political reality we have, basil, Obama IS probably about the "best we can do"; an Eisenhower Republican. I don't like that, I'm glad as hell my guys Wyden and Merkeley and Blumenauer are pushing him from the left (or at least as far Left as they can go), but I'd be kidding myself if I thought that we'd get anything significantly better out of the national political process as it stands.<br /><br />I hate to say this, but what just happened here is classic. Here are the whole bunch of us who want classic "liberal" things; removal of power from the hands of the wealthy and connected, domestic employment at fair wages, foreign peace without the "entanglements" Washington warned us against, and generally a fair shake for all Americans; men, women, black, white, whatever...<br /><br />And we've just spent a couple of hundred words ripping each other up because some triggerhappy douchebag shot a guy.<br /><br />I'll bet you that real red-meat Republicans would laugh themselves sick to see our classic circular firing squad...FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-37911525131270219242013-07-26T15:23:32.799-07:002013-07-26T15:23:32.799-07:00Let me specify.
"show up here in Kansas.&quo...Let me specify.<br /><br />"show up here in Kansas."<br /><br />:)<br /><br />God bless yore pea pickin' hearts.<br /><br />bbAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-63002781292808950042013-07-26T15:18:17.389-07:002013-07-26T15:18:17.389-07:00Our family will celebrate ( 5 months in advance, s...Our family will celebrate ( 5 months in advance, so they better last that long! ) my parent's 65th anniversary of being able to stand each other well enough to stay together.<br /><br />I assume they were happy enough, they never aired their greivances to us kids, except when I found dad's racy girlie magazine underneath the car's driver seat and mom chewed him out for it.<br /><br />So it goes with friends and family, my sister will likely proclaim "No politics!" and all will go well.<br /><br />I still read RAW but jeez . . .<br />jim and lisa, you still get a warm welcome and loads of hospitality if you show up here, but there's little to be gained from discussing guns and Israel.<br /><br />And I'd truly be honored.<br /><br />Back to Digby, in the same light. It is interesting to see her, and others' progression from elation at Obama's election to the White House, to something near disgust.<br /><br />http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2013/07/heads-we-win-tails-you-lose.html<br /><br />Speaking of the which, I see our Feckless Leader sending his DOJ thugs to beat up on the pot heads in your neighbor to the North.<br /><br />Stinker.<br /><br />bbAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-46531914498187241812013-07-26T14:59:13.859-07:002013-07-26T14:59:13.859-07:00basil; this did sort of turn into something, didn&...basil; this did sort of turn into something, didn't it? I'm kind of sorry it did, though, since the basis of that turn was the wretched Zimmerman trial, of which, as Pierce continually noted, nothing good would and has ever come.<br /><br />I think a large part of what's happening is the sense that the ship of state is utterly adrift; we are mere passengers as we bear down upon the iceberg whilst the supposed "helmsmen" screech and bicker and the wealthy in the first-class saloon loll about in oblivious luxury. We know things suck, we fear they will only get worse, and yet there seems no escape or hope for a better outcome.<br /><br />At any rate, I REALLY don't want to burn up anymore bandwidth discussing the goddamn idiotic "self-defense" law of Florida. I'm going to sit down and try and come up with something more robust to post about this weekend...<br /><br />FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-20927953206576087162013-07-26T14:44:35.712-07:002013-07-26T14:44:35.712-07:00And this post started out as a NothingBurger?
in ...And this post started out as a NothingBurger?<br /><br />in re the Zimmerman/Martin affaire, Z entered into a situation which authorized law enforcement told him not to and shot an unarmed man dead.<br /><br />That is undeniable fact.<br /><br />In the same state of Florida, an armed woman fired a handgun into the ceiling to warn off a possible ( likely ) attacker, the only harm resulting was a hole in some wood or plaster, no one dead.<br /><br />She gets 20 years in prison.<br /><br />If that's not a solid basis for the belief that the law in Florida is thoroughly and racially fucked up, I simply cannot fathom what would be.<br /><br />As for the malaise you expressed at the top of this post, I do have a sense of dread that this time may be similar to the false peace in Europe after the Nazis invaded Poland in '39.<br /><br />I truly can't see how things can go on as they are presently in this country. I don't think we'll escape the social turmoil that has erupted in Brazil, Egypt, Turkey. Like those demonstrations, it will be triggered over some minor thing, like the price of bread in France a couple of centuries ago.<br /><br />OTOH, the planet and its atmosphere may not give us much choice ( or time ) as to the civility of our possible social change.<br /><br />As for me, I read your post at milpub, last call, and your comment about the lack of posting and me. I've stopped posting at my one-time favorite message board, for more or less the same reasons you outlined here. I'm down to sharing the occasional newsy bit or pithy pic on FB and keeping up with internet friends. I think I've gone Publius, hope he's still alive and kicking<br /><br />I'm still involved in local and state politics. I've got 2 assholes for US Senators and a stinker even his fellow goopers can't stand for a US Rep. In a state that will doubtless re-elect them all when they're on the ballot.<br /><br />So there's not much leverage as far as I go.<br /><br />I feel like I'm at the Restaurant at the End of the Universe, waiting to see what happens.<br /><br />As for baseball ( not a fan anymore ) and politics and race, here's a bit from Digby:<br /><br />http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2013/07/it-isnt-about-border-its-about-other.html<br /><br />bb Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-49751868165201789332013-07-26T13:07:40.791-07:002013-07-26T13:07:40.791-07:00Anyway; look, guys. Jim and Lisa have their opini...Anyway; look, guys. Jim and Lisa have their opinions on the goddamn Zimmerman thing, and they've aired them at their site. I don't understand them, but that's why they're THEIR opinions and it's THEIR site. This issue obviously has them both pretty upset, and since I like them and I generally enjoy their writing I'm just trying not to get involved in something that is just going to lead to us shouting at each other over the Internet, perhaps the most eloquent definition of insanity ever invented.<br /><br />However, this is MY site, and I'm going to suggest that - just like I commented in the post - my point was that there's nothing for us here. We're not going to change anyone's mind on this issue; it obviously has very deep roots in various parts of the human id. I suggest we accept that we're going to disagree and move away before we all say something we'll regret.FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-31319020916187310322013-07-26T12:53:43.838-07:002013-07-26T12:53:43.838-07:00Barry: The baseball writer Bill James once made a ...Barry: The baseball writer Bill James once made a comment about the issue of "whitness" discussing about how somehow professional baseball had lost the wonderful nicknames associated with racial and ethnic prejudices; nobody called anybody the "Polish Rifle" or "Superjew" anymore. And his observation was that so long as the game was all white those differences WERE differences; it mattered whether you were Jewish, or Italian, or Polish, or German.<br /><br />But after the blacks got in everyone else was all just "white".<br /><br />Latins have always been in an interesting position. Very Euro-looking people in Latin American countries are typically considered "white" and are often referred to by nicknames that suggest that; in Panama the upper crust - sometimes called "los dorados", the Golden Ones - were denigrated by the lower class Panamenos as "rabiblancos"; "white asses". Very Indian-looking Latins, however, were often discriminated against as blacks were and are in the U.S.; the dictators Torrijos and his successor Noriega often used that to whip up support amongst the poor black and Indio parts of Panama.<br /><br />But even these folks had their issues; in the Eighties we had a fairly massive riot because the locals in Colon (largely descended from Caribbean blacks) took over the old Coco Solo naval installation and renamed it "Christo Negro"; "Black Christ". Their non-black Panamanian neighbors promptly invaded and burned and beat the shit out of any black Panamanian they could catch.<br /><br />Ah, race; how fucking stupid it makes us hairless monkeys.FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-88728584904337184152013-07-26T12:40:31.341-07:002013-07-26T12:40:31.341-07:00Lisa: OK, so here's an example of what I'm...Lisa: OK, so here's an example of what I'm not getting; from your latest post on the subject.<br /><br /><i>"Ranger has a suggestion for a final bravura installment: "George Zimmerman IS me!" as he meditates upon his drone killing of 16-year-old U.S. citizen Abdulrahmen al-Awlaki. It would be momentous. The truth shall set you free, Mr. Obama, and the humility may even effect a reconciliation with your mentor, Rev. Wright."</i><br /><br />Hunh? How'd we get from Martin to al-Awlaki? Wright? I get that two young people got waxed, but you DO see the difference of how a black man (given the history of judicial murder of, and lynching of, black men but their fellow citizens) might see this versus how he might see the death of a foreign "enemy", whether it's a kid in Yemen or a kid in Dresden or Yokohama?<br /><br /><i>"...the following fabulation disguised as fact: "Yes, Zimmerman is the one who pulled the trigger. Yes, white-on-black racism dwarfs black-on-white racism..."</i><br /><br />Are you seriously arguing that white people <i>aren't</i> been the ones on top and haven't been for most of the past 200 years?<br /><br /><i>"Racism is a felt emotion and as such, purely subjective."</i><br /><br />No. Prejudice is an emotion. Racism is "...discrimination on an ethnic or cultural basis". You or I feel prejudice. If I have political or legal power I can act on that in a racist way; keep you out of buildings, or jobs, or in the back of buses. If you don't have power you might be able to act out your prejudice on ME, but not on my group as a whole.<br /><br />That's why <i>"...the liberals are chomping at the bit to diminish the public black-on-white murder of a white man by four blacks in an Atlanta suburb last week."</i> Because what's happened to those four blacks? <i>"Four south Cobb teenagers are in custody in connection with the beating death of a 36-year-old Mableton man on Mableton Parkway early Sunday morning."</i><br /><br />No question of self-defense there? Mmmm...<br /><br />Oh, and by the way - they said they attacked the white guy not for his crackerishness, but...because he "looked gay".<br /><br />"<i>There is nothing new or wholesome in the liberal message, just deaf, impotent rage and anger."</i><br /><br />So...because Bill Saletan and some talking heads over at Atrios are pissed off that this Zimmerman asshole got off on a badly written piece of Florida law an entire political worldview <i>"...founded on ideas of liberty and equality"</i> is just "deaf impotent rage and anger? The Left is just as "guilty" as the Right of racebaiting, hatemongering, scapegoating? Hell, I'll be the first to agree that there ARE people on the Left that do that, but to the degree of the Limbaughs talking about black bucks buying steaks with food stamps or Malkin talking about interning all American muslims?<br /><br />C'mon...<br /><br />So that's what I don't get, Lisa. You and jim seem to be throwing the liberal baby out with the Zimmerman bathwater here, and I don't get this at all, and that's why I'm trying not to engage you on this issue.FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-6282217201785841992013-07-26T12:19:54.947-07:002013-07-26T12:19:54.947-07:00It's defending the right of a white man (and y...It's defending the right of a white man (and yes, under other circumstances Zimmerman might not have been 'white') to kill a black man at will. I can't see any defenders of Zimmerman defending Trayvon if he had wrestled that gun the other way. Of course, nobody would have heard of him, outside of the two families, because Trayvon would have been doing life withing a couple of months.Barry DeCiccohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04735814736387033844noreply@blogger.com