tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post4330571018430974444..comments2024-03-28T12:29:39.157-07:00Comments on Graphic Firing Table: Filthy zerksFDChiefhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-49320920757814840912012-06-18T18:09:07.143-07:002012-06-18T18:09:07.143-07:00teo: The thing is, I can see how the combination o...teo: The thing is, I can see how the combination of range and speed might be a good thing, say, for a smaller nation that didn't have the blue-water Navy the U.S. has and needed to project it's troops out aways without the sorts of heavy-duty logistical CS/CSS tail we can provide.<br /><br />But we have so many other ways to do the stuff this A/C does and without the fiddly tilt-rotor nuisance that will become a bigger nuisance over time...<br /><br />So, like I say - I don't get it, and the implications are what you've detailed - that this is as much a get-rich scheme as it is a workable weapons system.<br /><br />I hate to think that, but absent some hard answers to hard questions, you gotta wonder...FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-65825367861819982992012-06-18T04:46:47.197-07:002012-06-18T04:46:47.197-07:00"why is this aircraft necessary? What mission..."why is this aircraft necessary? What missions can it do that others cannot? Why is THIS aircraft necessary? What makes the need for speed so critical?"<br /><br />Well it provides a lot of money to all the people who matter and need need that money. That is its primary mission and it seems the equipment fulfills all the necessary requirements.<br />What is really harder to understand -"What missions can it do that others cannot?" - is why not steal the money by using a workable equipment.<br />And if you think about it the answer is quite logical.<br />You simply can't steal those amounts of money by mascarading a helicopter production. Many other producers exist, the price levels are quite well known, it's harder to simply invoice billions upon billions for equipments which obviously don't cost that much.<br />Theft becomes obvious.<br />But Osprey is unique, so you can invoice as much as the state can pay. And then some more. The fact that it is useless in a military sense is absolutely secondary it seems.teonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-5259272566625699032012-06-15T18:46:04.846-07:002012-06-15T18:46:04.846-07:00Leon: The M581/M792 was the light MTO&E (The &...Leon: The M581/M792 was the light MTO&E (The "J-series", if I recall correctly) answer to the transportation problem. We had them in places where the H-series mech units had either M35A1 2 1/2-ton trucks or M113 APCs. And they replaced the M718 "MUTT" (the latter-day jeep) that had been the light/airborne unit evac vehicle in the Sixties and Seventies.<br /><br />They were a sort of stop-gap vehicle between the Vietnam era equipment (which was, in itself, really just the last of the WW2/Korea stuff) and the newer vehicles that we're using today, the M998 HMMWV and variants. The old Chevy CUCV - the O.D. version of the Blazer - was kind of the same idea.<br /><br />I have a number of other problems with the M-22 operationally.<br /><br />Apparently it has a hell of a hard time going from level flight to a hover and once in a hover it is supposed to be pretty tender, so you can't really come in hard and flare like a helo. Low and slow = RPG bait, IMO.<br /><br />It's tremendously LOUD. GIs I've talked to say that you can hear the fucker coming long before it gets there.<br /><br />The rotor wash is incredible, and throws up a hell of a dust cloud and can even knock you over.<br /><br />Like I said to Ael; I agree that there's a case to be made for these A/C. But I just haven't heard it, and the costs seem to me to be perilously close to outweighing the benefits. But I don't know; that's why I'd like to think that my elected reps - the guys who DO get briefed and who, supposedly DO know, are asking the questions they should. I just really wonder...FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-12919659055300553892012-06-15T18:33:47.580-07:002012-06-15T18:33:47.580-07:00Ael: Not a bad thing to have, range...except ISTM ...Ael: Not a bad thing to have, range...except ISTM that the MV-22 is an expensive way to get a little extra range. Why not just fly the boys in on MAC Air to the staging area? Looking back at the contingency operations we've run over the past 30-40 years or so my gut sense is that they were either long-distance strategic transport-type deals (Grenada, Panama) where the troops coming in directly from CONUS had to either airdrop or airland, or a pretty short-hop over-the-horizon type AASLT (the ridiculous landing in Somalia, the USMC in Grenada).<br /><br />Again, my problem isn't with the airframe as it stands, but that nobody seems to have asked the question "What missions have we done, what missions could we do, that we would HAVE to have these A/C?"<br /><br />IMO the MV-22 is a hell of a fiddly, expensive way to move joes from point A to point B. If anyone could make a case for a genuinely likely mission that wouldn't be doable without them and would be absolutely critical to do I'd be halfway convinced. But I haven't heard that case so I remain skeptical...FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-67319094061225775632012-06-15T10:09:06.390-07:002012-06-15T10:09:06.390-07:00Curious about the GAMA Goat, why not just use a M1...Curious about the GAMA Goat, why not just use a M113? Weren't those slightly amphibious?<br /><br />About the Osprey, very pretty and whizz-bang to look at. But I worry if one loses an engine to fluke mishap or enemy fire... You can autorotate a heli, I don't believe you can do much with the Osprey except crash.Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15715768191516712688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-32632418561918286112012-06-15T05:59:09.779-07:002012-06-15T05:59:09.779-07:00To be fair, I believe that the Osprey also has a g...To be fair, I believe that the Osprey also has a greater range than most helicopters. This is a big difference(as in "I can fly from this island to that island now")<br /><br />Still, I agree that the Osprey will not age well.Aelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10788190394672505925noreply@blogger.com