tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post5354253045356115614..comments2024-03-28T12:29:39.157-07:00Comments on Graphic Firing Table: LemmingsFDChiefhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-73076357198776321372010-03-12T12:04:30.240-07:002010-03-12T12:04:30.240-07:00RS: So do I.
I think that the impulse to love and...RS: So do I.<br /><br />I think that the impulse to love and want children is hardwired in a lot of us, perhaps most of us, for otherwise why would we do it?<br /><br />What gets complicated is, as you point out, when that meets a cultural dynamic that demands we have more, faster, shinier, better...and considers things like air, water, food, minerals as "free resources", and doesn't ask that we pay the real price for consuming them. Some of this is human nature, but a lot of it is deliberate policy, so governments subsidize industrial farming, rapacious commercial fishing or dirty fish farming, wasteful mining...and kick the environmental and societal can down the road.<br /><br />But how long a road do we have left?<br /><br />I don't know. Like I said - I don't think anyone knows. But I have a nasty suspicion that it's not as long, or as wide and easy, as we think it is.FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-91919107708897503392010-03-12T12:00:29.116-07:002010-03-12T12:00:29.116-07:00"For all our religion, we're not brothers...<i>"For all our religion, we're not brothers, and only really care about us and ours. We are lost, and have not been found."</i><br /><br />Sadly, Lisa, this seems to be the story of the human race in general. We can manage to think of ourselves only as tribes and clans, and the "others" as, well..."others", and tomorrow as a neverland that may never affect us.<br /><br />Now that we've developed the technological ability to alter our surroundings to such immense degree will we ever manage to transcend our monkey-brains to think wider and further than we ever have?<br /><br />Sadly, my money is on no. I think we will go down into a nasty welter of poverty, sickness and war gibbering at fate and flinging our poop at each other. The indignity is almost as tragic as the suffering.FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-48911409942018467122010-03-11T10:28:49.792-07:002010-03-11T10:28:49.792-07:00Here goes, then. I'm not sure that there is a ...Here goes, then. I'm not sure that there is a whole lot separating the N. American philosophy surrounding children with anything else lifestyle-related. And I do think to a certain degree that it is lifestyle and not much else, with a few religious exceptions. Our culture tells us that economies will continue to grow forever, that wages will increase forever, that fossil fuels and other such energy sources will always be there, that essentially, it's always going to get bigger and better. This feeds, I think into our approach to families - since the world can, we're told, support us, there's no personal responsibility associated with the impact of population on our society or on global society as a whole, just personal responsibility to provide for our children. Not to say that parental love isn't sincere, not at all, just that the impact of population growth is not questioned by all that many.<br /><br />Regardless of this observation, I still longed for children (obviously), but even if I had the energy for more than my two, would not feel right going further than that. As you say, it's easy for me to say that - I don't need children as an insurance policy (at least under the current economic structure) or as a source of labour assistance in food production or whatnot.<br /><br />I pessimistically think we're heading into much harder times, with only the first bump behind us, and I don't think it's going to be pretty. I wish I felt differently.Red Sandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00468789655058139527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-52327583119075487892010-03-10T17:16:57.357-07:002010-03-10T17:16:57.357-07:00"I cannot think of an organism or a species o..."I cannot think of an organism or a species of organisms that thrives without some sort of population control"<br /><br />Right, and as you mention, the control is reduced forage or water, or microbes or war. The planet cannot outfit everyone in our current population (6.5 B) to the level of comfort you enjoy. I read today that this year may be the tipping year for more "minority" births in the U.S. than white. So the complexion (um) of the world will change, and probably general standards of living will also shift.<br /><br />We are probably not at the apex of what frivolousness we might have, but we seem to be in a headlong rush to get there. I have the feeling that when do hit the penultimate end of our profligate consumption, there will be a spectacular crash.<br /><br />I am not sure why most privileged people are unwilling to pare down. Then again, those on the ascendant are unwilling to be satisfied with their humble accouterments when they get a whiff of what's possible, too.<br /><br />We're just greedy and can't equable share resources, so we'll only know the end when we get there, I s'pose. For all our religion, we're not brothers, and only really care about us and ours. We are lost, and have not been found.Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08839236994990699117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-37078924616270401432010-03-10T15:50:35.142-07:002010-03-10T15:50:35.142-07:00RS: awaiting your comments - please don't feel...RS: awaiting your comments - please don't feel constrained or intimidated. Like blogging in general, this doesn't take awesome brainpower, just a willingness to air your ideas and take the resultant pummeling with grace.FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-46918673400626718522010-03-10T15:49:34.825-07:002010-03-10T15:49:34.825-07:00Lee: Several points well taken...with the exceptio...Lee: Several points well taken...with the exception that I would argue that you have a critically important function once your womb is no longer for rent. Just as I can see problems with the vitality of societies reduced to replacement level reproduction, I also see problems with the post-Bill-and-Melinda societies currently bursting with under-twenties, as all the "spare" kids survive and reproduce themselves. Frankly, the presence of men and women with no reproductive skin in the game, as smart as you are and with your (so far as I can tell) utterly rational and fairly objective outlook goes a long way towards offsettling the current popular affection for emotional infantilism and dogmatic irrationality.<br /><br />Want to justify your next 30 years of consumption? Get elected to you local legislature on the "Not for Sale/No Bullshit" ticket and proceed to tell people inconvenient truths. If you have their ears for a single term you'll have justified the next 20 years of caviar and cabana boys...FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-12599626526596413862010-03-10T15:43:43.167-07:002010-03-10T15:43:43.167-07:00WD: One of the enormous issues with dealing with t...WD: One of the enormous issues with dealing with the question of "how many people can we support" is that most of us feel the same way about our littlies (and our biggies, when they get there...). The insane fecundity of people like the Duggars appalls me, but beyond the religious side of it I do believe they honestly love kids and love THEIR kids enough to take a bullet for every one of them.<br /><br />And every other parent - or at least, every other decent parent - feels the same way. So how do you tell people "You can't have more than two...or one!" If you're China you do it by fiat and could care less about the resulting human sorrow and unhappiness, but I'd imagine that few of us outside Tom Friedman would be throughly satisfied with the Chinese way.<br /><br />While I personally feel that we're helping to do our bit by our family one-bio-kid policy, I don't know if it helps with the bigger picture...FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-19097628269741584102010-03-10T12:51:02.491-07:002010-03-10T12:51:02.491-07:00I wish I even had the brainpower to enter into thi...I wish I even had the brainpower to enter into this discussion but since I'm still on the debt side of the addiction to little ones and have few clear thoughts on anything these days, I'll just let your words (in this post and in others) percolate in my brain and hope that my own thoughts might emerge again someday as the fog dissipates.Red Sandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00468789655058139527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-40805451693308019292010-03-10T11:17:04.948-07:002010-03-10T11:17:04.948-07:00This is why, although it is noble for Bill and Mel...This is why, although it is noble for Bill and Melinda Gates to try to save a million children from malaria, I have to wonder what happens when all those children who now die from natural causes grow up and need to be fed and housed and then start reproducing themselves. It's wonderful to save an individual child, from the parent's point of view, but from the planet's point of view it could be a disaster. Are Bill and Mel planning for that? Same for those who want to prevent abortions. Who will care for all those children? Is it logical for every conceived child to grow up?<br /><br />On the other end of the scale, I don't see the logical reason to extend every human life as long as possible. If a disease comes for me, so be it. Once my kids are grown, I've done my part to keep the species going, and my presence here for the next 40 or 50 years will use up lots of resources and not contribute much. Maybe it's my total lack of spirituality (much too Asperger's like for that), but we are just another set of animals on this planet and way too many of us are simply consuming and not returning anything. Oh, and turn what's left of me into compost after you donate any useful bits once I don't need them any more.Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08079893711147027571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-62694233533798953002010-03-09T22:03:19.556-07:002010-03-09T22:03:19.556-07:00This is an interesting post for me, because I spen...This is an interesting post for me, because I spent the bulk of my early adulthood feeling no need to reproduce, but bearing a strong fear of overpopulation and its consequences. When we first brought Q home, I wrote a post about how she was "the perfect predator". I was actually giving a nod to a much more lowbrow form of media...the Twilight series, in which the author describes vampires as the perfect predator because (in her lowbrow fantasyland) they were created to be in every imaginable way irresistible to humans (and yes, I'm ashamed that I ever even read one of those books). At the time, halfway between singlehood and motherhood, I felt that irresistible charm and draw that the Q was beginning to exert over me, and yet I still saw her as something that could potentially tap all my resources, creative time, and energy. Since then I have been completely and utterly consumed by the charms of the Q. I no longer feel any regret for the loss of time, energy or resources. I am 150% under her spell, and I feel only the joy of it. THat said, I am still terrified of the ramifications of overpopulation. I'll just leave it there. It's neither wrong nor right, but thanks to the fact that I have only one (and no designs on having more) and that that one came from the existing pool, without adding to it, I am able to indulge myself completely and without guilt in my utter submission to her innate charms, predatory as they may be. I'm a goner. I have submitted without hesitation to the parental imperative. I have given over all sense of self-preservation. I would take a bullet for her without a single regret. So be it.Maiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17149615417507090988noreply@blogger.com