tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post6163368158522370243..comments2024-03-28T12:29:39.157-07:00Comments on Graphic Firing Table: A Syrious QuestionFDChiefhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-78018060669443513562013-09-08T17:14:25.473-07:002013-09-08T17:14:25.473-07:00Pluto,
Apology accepted. There is no way I favor...Pluto,<br /><br />Apology accepted. There is no way I favor boots on the ground unless it is part of a UN mop up AFTER Assad is finished and humanitarian relief is needed.<br /><br />I'm sick of watching Americans play cop places where the natives like shooting us better than each other.Syrbal/Labryshttp://www.herlanderwalking.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-77175168720381639272013-09-08T00:57:41.450-07:002013-09-08T00:57:41.450-07:00"I could even see myself favoring boots on th...<i>"I could even see myself favoring boots on the ground if we could find a reasonably good moderate replacement for Assad.</i>"<br /><br />1. After three years of war the only "moderates" in Syria are probably the ones no longer breathing. Don't get your hopes up.<br /><br />2. U.S. troops are a bad solution to a worse problem. You want "boots on the ground"? Look north. The Turkish Army is a damn good outfit; tough, trained, and professional. There might be some issues with the Syrian Kurds, but overall if there was a "solution" to this involving foreign troops - and I don't agree particularly that there is one, mind you - it would seem to me to work better with the Turks and with U.S. forces.<br /><br />Just my opinion, but there you are...FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-44451158181871397202013-09-08T00:54:32.912-07:002013-09-08T00:54:32.912-07:00"We should be working with the Russians in su...<i>"We should be working with the Russians in support of Assad to crush the Islamic radical scum that is attempting to make Syria part of some hideous anti-US caliphate."</i><br /><br />Weellll...forst of all I don't know if anything is going to put the civil war genie back in the Alawite bottle, Russians, the U.S., Assad, or whatever. <br /><br />I'm guessing the best that anyone can do now is hope that some decently brutal Ataturk-type secular strongman manages to assemble enough partisans to keep the entire thing from just becoming Somalia on the eastern Levant.<br /><br />And secondly, everytime I hear the word "caliphate" I reach for my revolver. It's REALLY high time to get over our juvenile obsession with the fantasies of a bunch of raggedy-ass salafis. There are "Islamic radical scum" in Syria. They are neither a majority of the rebels (though they are often the most ruthless and thus the most militarily effective) nor likely to want to form some sort of pan-Arab "caliphate" with the people they hate - such as Iran, longtime backer of the Assad clan.<br /><br />The bizarre fear and loathing of this comic-book "caliphate" which existed in bin Laden's masturbatory fantasies and Michelle Malkin's under-the-bed-wetting nightmares is perhaps the only thing that has caused more damage to U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East than our BFF embrace of Israel.<br /><br />Other than that, well, yeah. The sensible thing would be to work with the Russians, Turks, and Iran to broker some sort of deal where Syria ended up with that Ataturk-type guy. We won't do that, of course, because that would mean actually "negotiating", which we have somehow managed to conflate with "surrendering" by forgetting how the great empires of history managed to play and finesse both their enemies and allies.<br /><br />Fuckadoodledoo, we're stupid.FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-25393304148464277552013-09-07T19:45:58.550-07:002013-09-07T19:45:58.550-07:00".... but more believable than this all being...".... but more believable than this all being some complex Machiavellian scheme to prop up Assad..."<br /><br />IMHO, this is a collision of America's messianic complex (e.g. spreading freedom and democracy to the heathens) and its hard-on for Iran. Regarding the latter, the wonks think that Iran will jump bad to protect - or at least avenge - an action against Assad and that will give us the window of opportunity to finally fulfill the fantasy of ruining the Iranian Revolutionary Gov't.<br /><br />IMVHO, the wonks and wide eyed world saviors are pushing us to the brink of WW3. Note there has recently even been some crazy talk about the US being able to defeat the Russians in set piece war.<br /><br />We should be working with the Russians in support of Assad to crush the Islamic radical scum that is attempting to make Syria part of some hideous anti-US caliphate.no onehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01354534884958815612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-49515482023726415692013-09-07T05:15:16.957-07:002013-09-07T05:15:16.957-07:00Syrbal, I apologize for the attack. My only defen...Syrbal, I apologize for the attack. My only defense is that you started out your comments very similar to a lot of the pro-bombing comments and I flew off the handle.<br /><br />I've encountered quite a lot of people recently who are in favor of bombing and use very similar arguments to yours but without the twist you added at the end. Count this as a reading failure on my part.<br /><br />Like you, I favor a slow building of a coalition using the World Court and the UN similar to what Bush the elder did in 1992.<br /><br />It would restore US prestige in the world by working within the framework of treaties already in place, would force the US government to make its information public, and would put Russia in a tough position diplomatically if the charges can be proven.<br /><br />Depending on the evidence and the actions of the Assad government, I could even see myself favoring boots on the ground if we could find a reasonably good moderate replacement for Assad (unlikely but theoretically possible).<br /><br />There's no need to hurry here, the Assad regime is holding off the rebellion(s) but it cannot stop it(them) and they will eventually wear down government support until they win out of sheer government exhaustion. This is very similar to the gameplan in 1930's China and took only 15 short years to work.Plutonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-13470696183346627112013-09-06T12:27:43.698-07:002013-09-06T12:27:43.698-07:00.the old line about how one knows a politician is ...<b>.the old line about how one knows a politician is lying is that 'his mouth is moving' comes to mind</b><br /><br />In case you need proof to defend yourself . . . . . .<br /><br />http://www.digbysblog.blogspot.com/2013/09/is-it-really-all-about-chemical-weapons.html<br /><br />"Update: Also note that Kerry said he and Hagel were against the Iraq war. They both voted for it. C'mon."<br /><br />bbAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-17468586539800846862013-09-06T11:47:01.803-07:002013-09-06T11:47:01.803-07:00I just ran into this, which correctly judges the m...I just ran into this, which correctly judges the meme I've heard many times, last night from EJ Dionne f'rinstance, that the US will lose face if we decide not to sprinkle Syria with Freedom Bombs. And think of the Children!!<br /><br />http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/A_Bad_Reason_Is_Stated_Badly<br /><br />"Michael Gerson made his bones by strategically placing verbs and things in the sentences for the least literate president in the history of the Republic. Famously, Gerson was the Christian conscience of the administration that brought the United States over to the side of nations that torture and that wage aggressive wars. Yes, dear friends, Michael Gerson was the gospel bobo of the waterboard. Naturally, this all qualified him for a post-ventriloquism career on the op-ed pages of The Washington Post, under the command of Fred Hiatt, whose skill in personnel matters rivals that of the 1962 New York Mets. It seems now that Gerson has examined his deeply Christian conscience and has come out on the other side as a <b>brawny spokesman for the Why Do They Laugh At My Mighty Sword?</b> position on Syria.<br />.<br />.<br />."<br /><br />bbAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-13753452982726798032013-09-06T11:37:52.210-07:002013-09-06T11:37:52.210-07:00Military suicides, tragically, outnumber combat de...Military suicides, tragically, outnumber combat deaths these days.<br /><br />http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/01/14/169364733/u-s-militarys-suicide-rate-surpassed-combat-deaths-in-2012<br /><br />General Dempsey contradicts Sec. Kerry's statement that bombing is not an act of war.<br /><br />And I've seen pictures like this<br /><br />http://i.imgur.com/TyfCNhO.jpg<br /><br />on FB and around the web.<br /><br />Is there trouble brewing in the ranks?<br /><br />bbAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-76776139783057819562013-09-05T14:23:07.301-07:002013-09-05T14:23:07.301-07:00jim, Labrys: While I don't have any confidence...jim, Labrys: While I don't have any confidence or belief in the capability of any U.S. politician to play political 12-dimension chess to the degree that he/she/they would gin up airstrikes on Syria to <i>bolster</i> the Assad regime, the history of the area shows that the U.S. has been able to get along just fine with Assad, even to the point of renditioning our captives to him to torture when we didn't feel energetic enough to do it ourselves or something.<br /><br />In all honesty I really do think this goes back to some defense policy staffer briefing Obama's NSC about the Syrian chemical attacks (plural, there have been several, mostly small, and at least one or more are suspected of having been by rebel outfits or by government defectors to the rebels...) and mentioning the problem of facing a potential enemy who not only had chemical munitions but the will to use them.<br /><br />Chemicals suck as weapons; well-trained troops don't lose many people to them (civilians, on the other hand, drop like flies...). But they make even simple military tasks difficult and - probably the MOST important factor - they freak the U.S. public out. The notion that Our Brave Boys and Girls might get slimed if we invaded Syria would go huge in cooling off public enthusiasm for such an invasion.<br /><br />So...Obama ends up spewing his "red line" bullshit and when Assad's people (possibly...we still don't have any irrefutable proof...) gas his rebels we're caught in the old cleft stick of our own fashioning.<br /><br />Stupid and pointless, but more believable than this all being some complex Machiavellian scheme to prop up Assad...FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-18421299226980115932013-09-05T09:12:10.207-07:002013-09-05T09:12:10.207-07:00I know, JIm....the old line about how one knows a ...I know, JIm....the old line about how one knows a politician is lying is that 'his mouth is moving' comes to mind. I have to get a grip on my own mild conspiracy theory affliction at times....in some ways, us bombing Syria would IMPROVE Assad's cred in the area. And that and the continued drum beat makes me wonder why we might want to do that, you know?Syrbal/Labryshttp://www.herlanderwalking.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-81752882359472915502013-09-05T08:03:28.645-07:002013-09-05T08:03:28.645-07:00Labrys,
In 1992 GHWB sold the war with a line of l...Labrys,<br />In 1992 GHWB sold the war with a line of lies that included one that said that Iraqi soldiers took 22 Kuwaiti babies off of life support thereby killing them.<br />In 1914 we sold the Huns as bayoneting Belgian kids. Neither proved to be true.<br />I doubt all the intel/news coming outta Syria AND the White House.<br />jimjim at rangerhttp://rangeragainstwar.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-67043609270826680692013-09-04T15:21:45.728-07:002013-09-04T15:21:45.728-07:00Actually, Kevin Drum over at Mother Jones sums up ...Actually, Kevin Drum over at Mother Jones sums up the issues I have with this as being about enforcing the 1925 Geneva Protocol:<br /><br /><i>"The problem is that no matter how virtuously we view our own motives, and no matter how clear we think our message is, the rest of the world views things differently. They are much more cynical, and the message they'll take away from air strikes is that the U.S. will punish the use of chemical weapons if:<br /><br /> You are a small country that poses no real threat of retaliation;<br /> And we didn't like you very much to begin with;<br /> And the current U.S. president happens to want to do it;<br /> And America's current strategic alliances permit it.<br /><br />Would American air strikes on Syria give the world's tinpot thugs something to think about? Sure. And maybe you can say that every little nudge helps. But if we end up bombing Syria, I don't think anyone would take away from it a belief that America will always and forever retaliate against any country that uses chemical weapons. That's a pleasant fiction we might enjoy telling ourselves, but history doesn't back it up and the rest of the world knows it."</i><br /><br />Yep. What he said.FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-81635533641530867632013-09-04T15:18:05.114-07:002013-09-04T15:18:05.114-07:00Like I said, jim, I think that this is just a feat...Like I said, jim, I think that this is just a feature of having lots of bombs and guns; people and nations end up using them because they can. I don't think this has anything to do with morality, superior or otherwise...<br /><br />I suspect there are some poor dumb bastards on the Hill and elsewhere who really believe that they're going to "kill for peace". The majority of the folks being heard on this issue as in favor of it have various power-political motives. FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-7255165555504141512013-09-04T10:32:33.549-07:002013-09-04T10:32:33.549-07:00Jim,
I don't think we are morally superior, I...Jim,<br /><br />I don't think we are morally superior, I think we are hypocrites. I think we are being sold a bill of goods, just as we were on Iraq.<br /><br />And I am terribly afraid nobody in Congress is listening to constituents, outside of those who are lobbyists with lots of money.Syrbal/Labryshttp://www.herlanderwalking.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-25118929126512180452013-09-04T07:16:55.771-07:002013-09-04T07:16:55.771-07:00To all,
I just don't get it.
In Panama we kill...To all,<br />I just don't get it.<br />In Panama we killed at least 2000 civilians for no observable purpose.<br />We killed millions in the VN war, many of women and children. We bombed Cambodia and Laos back into the stone age. Can anyone forget the napalmed girl running naked down the road? We defoliated a country.That was a chemical weapon was it not?<br />We killed women and children routinely in the PWOT. Mannings release showed a gunship killing a kid, if i remember correctly.<br />So how are we morally superior?<br />Of course i didn't mention Dresden/Hamburg/Tokyo/Naga/Hiro, but i guess you all get the point.<br />And Congress, well they'll do what Congress always does.<br />Don't they always?<br />jimjim at rangerhttp://rangeragainstwar.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-70218871293697271532013-09-04T07:08:47.592-07:002013-09-04T07:08:47.592-07:00To all,
Before Congress votes shouldn't some o...To all,<br />Before Congress votes shouldn't some one ask--where did the sarin come from?<br />What's the source? <br />jimjim at rangerhttp://rangeragainstwar.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-91950361723941423422013-09-03T21:35:07.690-07:002013-09-03T21:35:07.690-07:00Well, I guess the magilla will be decided by a vot...Well, I guess the magilla will be decided by a vote of Congress. One can only hope that they will not come up with a piece of work as completely effed up as the 2001 AUMF, but I have no confidence that they won't.<br /><br />Christ, what a mess.FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-57348933739953559732013-09-03T09:33:27.047-07:002013-09-03T09:33:27.047-07:00"Dinner with Hitler? Did Kerry get an autogra..."Dinner with Hitler? Did Kerry get an autograph?"<br /><br />http://news.firedoglake.com/2013/09/03/kerry-labels-assad-hitler-despite-dining-with-him-british-sold-syria-chemical-weapons-for-civil-war/<br /><br /><br />bbAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-73080719579154458622013-09-03T02:56:05.571-07:002013-09-03T02:56:05.571-07:00And furthermore, what the hell happened to that fo...And furthermore, what the hell happened to that former Winter Soldier Kerry, channeling Darth Cheney?<br /><br />Is he so dense or clueless about what a former SoS endured and learned over the past 10 years? Even if there were CWs used and ordered by Assad, selfrighteousness doesn't go far to make might right.<br /><br />And there's grumbling in the ranks, according to Fallows. Who knows.<br /><br />bb Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-91882272532112990162013-09-03T02:35:05.199-07:002013-09-03T02:35:05.199-07:00Note how little talk of cutting off funding for th...<b>Note how little talk of cutting off funding for the Egyptian Army there was, no matter how high it piles the bodies.</b><br /><br />Which true point highlights what is behind all this.<br /><br />Money. I'm sure that there's some wise aphorism along the lines of "Money talks and morality walks."<br /><br />War is truly a racket, and everytime that comes up I recall Michael Moore's interview of the manager of a weapons factory, weapons systems advertising, weapons "porn" in videos.<br /><br />As far as features and bugs, one of the common descriptions or accolades of great leaders is their ability to shape events, not to react to them. Most current versions seem to go along to get along, hardly breaking mold or patterns.<br /><br />Maybe Caligula was a great and clever leader after all.<br /><br />Pandering to war lust and profits by marching his legions off to Britain but pelting the North Sea with ballista bolts and ordering his army to collect seashells as spoils is certainly unique.<br /><br />Or just a vicious rumor. The wiki bit on this is funny.<br /><br />bbAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-90981261736430147372013-09-02T14:46:06.062-07:002013-09-02T14:46:06.062-07:00Pluto...
My questioning whether we knew and did n...Pluto...<br /><br />My questioning whether we knew and did nothing came from a discussion <a href="http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/08/30/us_had_intel_on_chemical_strike_before_it_was_launched" rel="nofollow">here</a> I don't think the American government is infallible and do not understand your hostile attitude. IF you KNOW someone is going to do something wrong, as there was the suggestion that American intelligence knew, it would certainly behoove that knowledgeable person to at least offer the suggestion of a warning to those in harm's way.<br /><br />To say there is no moral ground requiring a warning (note, I did NOT say to ACT/Bomb anyone), is like saying, so what if the weather service knows a hurricane is coming, why warn...it may or may not hit anyone we care about.<br /><br />You erected a straw man argument out of what I was talking about; what I was saying is we should have WARNED about possible chemical attack; if we did not do so to hide our intelligence operatives --- then we can scarcely claim 'high moral ground' for an attack AFTER the chemical attack. What I said was Assad should face charges in World Court, not that America take a pre-emptive military shot.Syrbal/Labryshttp://www.herlanderwalking.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-17842412558555960272013-09-02T13:11:00.759-07:002013-09-02T13:11:00.759-07:00"At the pointy end of those bombs, there'..."At the pointy end of those bombs, there's not really a huge difference between neocon philosophy and the Right-to-Protect crowd."<br /><br />R2P is the 'Compassionate Conservatism' of the neocons. It's a way of piously painting the desired current war in a moral light. <br /><br />Note how little talk of cutting off funding for the Egyptian Army there was, no matter how high it piles the bodies. <br />Barry DeCiccohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04735814736387033844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-16972650577204668302013-09-02T09:28:12.072-07:002013-09-02T09:28:12.072-07:00This isn't so much about leaders as it is abou...This isn't so much about leaders as it is about those who surround them. I've pretty much decided that most leaders are just people being molded by true believers who have the money or position to play in the major leagues.<br /><br />At the pointy end of those bombs, there's not really a huge difference between neocon philosophy and the Right-to-Protect crowd.<br /><br />Great powers attract these sort of people.<br />srvnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-6611736281245429272013-09-01T19:00:30.899-07:002013-09-01T19:00:30.899-07:00Jim: Any good prosecutor knows that if you establi...Jim: Any good prosecutor knows that if you establish a pattern of criminal behavior you've gone a long way to convincing the jury that your accused done the crime. The fact that the U.S. has been doing this sort of thing since back in the 1800s seems to make a credible argument that this isn't a one-off, it isn't some sort of unique mistake or bad judgement call on the part of this Administration or of a U.S. government mesmerized by the "War on Terror", but something that tends to happen to nations and governments who see themselves as Powers. So the fact that Wilson and Truman and Kennedy and LBJ and Clinton and Bush I and Bush II and now Obama are doing much the same thing seems to make it pretty clear to me that this is a feature of U.S. politics, not a bug.<br /><br />IMO that kind of sucks, because it suggests that there's no real cure for the Washington Rules; that short of a massive realignment in the way that the geopolitical powers in the country think we will keep running into this damn stuff. Every decade or so there will be another Gulf of Tonkin, or another Libya, or Syria, or Nigeria to "straighten out", whether or not the various places and peoples are amenable to military force or whether the U.S. is the right agent to use such force or whether force is the right tool period...FDChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607785969510234092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31246093.post-5363804710963341332013-09-01T10:23:45.733-07:002013-09-01T10:23:45.733-07:00FDChief: "Hence the current U.S. posturing v...FDChief: "Hence the current U.S. posturing versus Iran; IF the mullahs get a nuke it's a game-changer and makes Great Power intervention less likely. But their intention to GET a nuke makes it more - rather than less likely - for Great Powers aligned against them to intervene in their affairs."<br /><br />Not really; the US and other western powers (not to mention the Saudis, Saddam, etc.) have been pounding on them ever since the Revolution.Barry DeCiccohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04735814736387033844noreply@blogger.com